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Q: [Congressman Nadler] And did he ever express why he wanted
a code to rig an election?
A: No. I immediately assumed that they were trying to keep you
guys from cheating with it... so... [laughter] so... I wrote
up the documentation of what you would look for in the source
code. How you would make sure the you - CUT - Mrs. Yang, and
said, here's your report. Here's your program. And she said,
you don't understand, we need to hide the fraud in the source.
In the source code.
Q: Hide the fraud, not reveal the fraud?
A: Not reveal the fraud because they needed to control the
vote in South Florida, is what she said.
Q: That's what she said?
A: That's what she said.
Q: To your knowledge, to your knowledge, was this used?
A: I have no idea. I was ready to leave, so... (laughter)
and and I was tired and left the company.
Q: In your testimony a minute ago I think you said just before
you left in answer to Congresswoman Tubbs Jones question, that...
would you just repeat what you said in terms of uh the the uh
exit polls?
A: The exit polls should not be significantly different from
the vote.
Q: And if they were you would conclude what?
A: I would conclude someone's playing with the vote?
Q: Not with the exit polls?
A: That's possible too.
Q: OK and that's why...
A: Something is definitely skewed.
Q: Something is skewed with one of the other above.
A: To select which one you'd have to see where the problem
is.
Q: Let me ask you one further question. Assuming for the moment
that such software, [UNINTELLIGABLE] such software to rig a vote
was used, in one or more machines in Ohio or in Florida, couldn't
you today detect that if you looked at the source code?
A: If you could get the machines and they had not been patched
yet. I mean, once they get in and touch em', anything could happen.
You could also set timers to do that, but then you could see
the timer. Then you'd have to take those machines, decompile
them, which I couldn't do, but possibly a Microsoft, an MIT something
could do, you might... you might be able to.
Q: You might?
A: Depends on how good they are at destroying what they had.
Q: Destroying what they had by tampering the machine afterwards,
or by programming them to destroy instructions in the first place?
A: Right. Because then since you...
Q: Either or both?
A: Either or both. You didn't actually seen what's in there,
so you don't know if the code is running as a single executable
or running in various modules. If it's running in modules you
could make the code actually eat itself.
Q: Let me ask you one further question. We've.... I've heard
that people who assume that lots of the election results, that
a large fraction of the election result within the state may
have been effected by deliberate fraud in a computer, are paranoid,
because in order to do that you would have to have access to
thousands of machines and that would be readily detectable. To
what extent is that true?
A: In depends on the technology that used. If you use a central
tabulation machine that fed in, all you'd have to do is set a
flag. You set a flag; the central tabulation machine would flip
your vote.
Q: So if you. So one person putting in bad code in a central
tabulation machine could affect thousands and thousands or tens
of thousands of votes?
A: Right.
Q: And...
A: And you could activate either automatically, or you could
make is so that there's code existing on like an otonic (?) machine
which feeds it, where you would punch it in, it would see the
flag, the server would see the flag and then...
Q: And if you had a recount and no paper trail, would that
be, as soon as that had happened, would that be reversible by
seeing the discrepancy between the tabulator, the central tabulator
code, and what the individual machines which had not been tampered
with code?
A: Not if I wrote it.
Q: Why not? In other words...
A: In other words I could make it match.
Q: You could work back from the tabulator to the individual
machines, so that the tabulator could tell the machines to switch
their results?
A: Yes. It talks both ways. You could flip it to whatever
you need.
Q: And they actually do talk to each other. this the machines
and the tabulator?
A: As long as it's hooked up. As long as they are networked
together, they can talk to each other.
Q: So in other words, there is absolutely no assurance whatsoever
on anything with regards to these machines.
A: Absolutely none, unless you look at the source code and
make sure it's safe before it goes in.
Q: Thank you very much. [APPLAUSE]
Chair: Thank you Congressman Nadler. I know that Congresswoman
Waters has questions, then Senator Miller, and then Congresswoman
Stephanie Tubbs Jones.
Q: [Congresswoman Waters] This will only take a moment, if
you would come back to the ...
A: I'm new at this.
Q: As you know, there has been a lot of discussion about that,
I think it is Diebold Company. Their relationship to the President
and a group within the administration and supposedly comments
about helping to insure that the President is reelected. In your
world in your environment, have you heard any of these kind of
discussion? Do you know people from Diebold... do you have any
sense of any actions that may have been taken?
A: I don't know anything about that at all.
Q: Thank You
A: Sorry.
Chair: Senator Miller
Q: [Senator Miller] Thank you Madam Chair.
Chair: Sir.
Q: I suspect that people will attack you in terms of your
credibility. Could you restate once again for the record your
credentials?
A: I'm a programmer. I worked for NASA. I've worked for Exxon/Mobile.
Worked for the Department of Transportation. And, other elements
of my story, because this company... well let's get into it,
why not? [LAUGHTER] This company also, they have a NASA contract.
and they were basically downloading tons of information, I mean
gigabytes worth, and handing it off to this little Chinese guy
named Henry Ng [Lee or Nee?] and it didn't seem right and he
was packing things and I wrote a program for DOT that allowed
contractors to send their information into DOT and he was kind
of the quality assurance guy for software. He put a wiretapping
module in the program that went to the contractors so that it
actually sent everything they sent back to Yang. So I reported
all this and just last March, I think, he was arrested for attempting
to send anti-tank missile chips to the capitol of Communist China.
If that's correct, this is such a small thing. [LAUGHTER] Although
I think that he only got a hundred dollar fine and no time.
Chair: Thank You. |
TOP
Government, at least,
has been faithfully paying retirees for almost seventy years.
We're not talking retirements that'll pay for yachts and condos
in Palm Beach, but something for the common man and woman to
rely upon, however humble. Common folks. You know, the ones who,
today, worry about their jobs heading off shore and their Social
Security funds heading into the accounts of trustworthy corporations
like First Command Financial Services. Companies who's
first interest is swelling their bottom line.
This Donald Rumsfeld's a real thinker.
Responding to criticism of his troop protection planning as he
and his boss were rushing production of their big war (criticism
from the troops themselves such as, "How come we have to
ride around Iraq detonating bombs with our under-armored humvees?").